Third Thursday Conference Call
April 20, 2006
3:00 p.m. CTD
Topic: The Da Vinci Code
Guests: Lee Strobel and Mark Mittleberg
There is an Internet visual presentation accompanying this call. Enter: DaVincicall.Outreach.com (omit www.) There are several slides available.
Mittleberg: I want to greet almost 800 pastors and church leaders from all over North America who are joining us for this call, and I want to thank Mission America. This has been a great partnership. We’ve been doing a number of these calls, but this is by far the largest. It is encouraging to us. I trust this hour will encourage and stretch you as you think of how to utilize these times.
Col. 4:5 says, “Act with wisdom toward outsiders, and make the most of every opportunity.” What we have before us is a book so pervasive, and a movie coming. It is one of hugest challenges to our church and our faith in our lifetime. I had a wake up call myself when the book first came out. I hadn’t heard of it, but there was a Muslim man who Lee (Strobel) and I had been sharing Christ with. His girlfriend said that the book confirmed his worst suspicions about Christianity, and he wasn’t interested in hearing any more.
Lee Strobel had the best illustration. This is a spiritual tsunami He compared it to the one in Asia a year and a half ago. What if we had known 3-4 weeks out that tsunami was coming? What could we have done? We could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives and saved great property damage. With this (Da Vinci), we know it is coming in the form of movie opening Friday, May 19th. We have time to prepare to make the most of this. What was intended for evil God can use for good. We can seize the opportunity for discussion.
Overview of the call.
The Mission America Coalition has partnered with us in preparing for this call. Jim Overholt, a great partner in evangelism, close friend, did much work with us to set up this call.
Jim Overholt: Thank you, Mark. Good afternoon on behalf of the Mission America Coalition (MAC), which is co-sponsoring the call. I thank everyone for taking time out on somewhat short notice to share on this important topic. Lee and Mark are doing so much to educate, and encourage. We want to thank Scott Evans, President of Outreach, Inc. for making a host of resources available.
Mark: Jim wrote a couple of excellent articles. They are available at www.missionamerica.org.
Now I am honored to introduce someone well known, among my most respected friends in Christian work, a statesman for the Church, Chairman of MAC to lead us in prayer.
Paul Cedar: Thank you for this opportunity to be on the call together. Let’s pray that God will help us and equip us to meet this opportunity. “We acknowledge the enemy will try to use this incredible book and film for evil, but we thank you that greater is the one who is in us than who is in the world. We pray for wisdom from above to share the love and grace of Jesus Christ to those who will be questioning; some who have faith, but will be questioning, and those who need to receive him as Savior. In Jesus name, Amen.
Mark. Lee Strobel has written several books, including The case for Christ, The Case for faith, The Case for the Creator. (Do you have one coming out for the Case for Krispy Cream?) He has been Teaching Pastor at Willow Creek and Saddleback, has had the program Faith Under Fire. Now he has a resource for small groups.
Lee Strobel: Thanks for all Outreach is doing; it has kind of become the hub for resources coming out. I want to talk first about why this is so important.
1. The Da Vinci Code book recently came out in paperback and sold half a million in one week.
But it attacks key tenets of Christianity, not just superficial. It deals with Mary, says that the
Gospels can’t be trusted, and says that Jesus didn’t claim to be the Son of God until the 4th
Century.
2. Because of the cunning way it is written, even Christians believe it is true. 1 in 3 Canadians believe there are descendants of Jesus walking the world today. 52% of Americans feel it has been helpful in their spiritual growth. This is nothing less than a spiritual tsunami.,
3. Because Dan Brown, the author, has put a tremendous evangelistic opportunity in our laps. Joseph said that what had been intended for evil, God intended for good. We will end up with an incredible harvest. Instead of boycotting, we need to engage people in discussion. People love to talk about it. Ask anyone. Mark and I were at a restaurant; the waitress had read it. We could have started a small group right then. One of the resources Gary Pool and I developed is small group oriented, a 4-week DVD driven study guide. We filmed sites and interviewed scholars.
Key topics:
1. What can history tell us?
2. Can we trust the 4 gospels?
3. What is Christianity attitude toward women?
4. Is Jesus the Son of God?
All of you on the call have my permission to show segments of this DVD in your churches. I will have a 1-minute clip from historian Paul Meyer, who refutes one of the claims in 60 seconds. The main purpose of this resource is, let’s invite people into groups. “You saw the movie – let’s get together and talk about it, hear from experts.” It leads them almost to self-discovery process that Jesus not only claims to be the Son of God but proves it.
The other thing we did is an inexpensive paperback Exploring the Da Vinci Code. It’s designed to give away, like to the waitress. It is written in the style of The Case for Christ. We went to London and Paris, gathered lots of quotes and sidebars, even evidence that convinced me as a skeptic. At $2.50, why don’t we ask people for a $5 donation to get one for themselves and one to give away.
Mark: Lee, you saw the waitress a week ago?
Lee: I was in the restaurant a week ago, and she said she had been reading my book and found it very interesting. Let me give you an idea of what one church is doing. Willow Creek has a midweek service. I’m going to present the vision for how to get into discussion, how to invite friends into a discussion group, getting them a book to go deeper. Then we will do 4-week series that models it. The last week in April I’ll do a message and then the 4 weeks of discussion groups follow. Mother’s Day is the week for the topic about women. Last is the deity of Jesus, which is an evangelistic opportunity. If you are in a small group, invite non-believing friends to join you.
I put some LeeStrobel.com materials on the website, video clips, to get a sense of it. We are now producing a free newsletter, Investigating Faith. It keeps you informed about cultural challenges to our faith. Hopefully you can be informed and reach out to people.
When I went to England to investigate sites, we saw opposite approaches. First was Westminster Abbey. There is a climactic scene in the movie. When they first tried to film there, the church said, “No – we don’t want to cooperate with you.” That’s an understandable attitude. It made my blood boil when I read the book. But they then went to another church to film. That church took the other approach. They said, “Your book is heretical. The book claims that the church has suppressed facts about Jesus. The way to counter this is to welcome vigorous debate.” This attitude of engaging conversation with others whose curiosity has been piqued, let’s leverage it for the glory of God, build bridges, and set the record straight. We’ll be ready this time. When the tsunami hits, we don’t want to see our friend’s faith shipwrecked. In a couple of years, let’s praise God for what he did.
Mark: We’re going to talk with other folks until the top of the hour, and then we’ll do some interaction on some of the top questions people are asking. Now I want to introduce (slide 6 of the visual) Ken Baugh, Pastor of Coast Hills Community Church, Aliso Viejo, CA. Lee and I have gotten to be friends with Ken in the last few months. He is a pastor and apologist, one of the coolest apologists I know. He is really smart, too, and has done some teaching. I think what he has to offer will serve us well. He caught the vision when the book first came out, when he was Pastor of Young Adults in McLean, VA. I’ve listened to CDs of his teaching. It was a tremendous series. He’s now pastor in Orange County at Coast Hills Community Church. He just finished a 7 week series there.
Ken Baugh: A couple of years ago at McLean Bible Church, I continued to get emails about this book I hadn’t heard of, but people were telling me, “This thing is rockin’ my faith, people are asking questions I can’t answer.” I started thinking I should respond. I picked up the book at the airport. As I stood in line getting a coffee, a guy behind me noticed the book and “went off” on me, proselytizing me about this book. As I walked to the gate, I must have seen 10-12 people carrying the book. I was shocked. The woman across the aisle from me was reading it. I got to chapter 55 – that’s when a lot of the heresy starts hitting the fan. I called back to my church and said I was going to do a series on the Da Vinci Code. My team was upset – they thought I was out of my mind. We went ahead and did the series, and it was the greatest in the 11 years I was there - the most response, interest, and the most unchurched friends invited in.
Mark: Well, that was the East Coast. Now you are on the west Coast. Tell us what you did at Coast Hills.
Ken: I knew the movie was coming out May 19th. We could do a series when it was released, or we could do it way ahead of the release and equip our people to begin dialog with others about what they would experience with the film. We did it that way, and finished 2 weeks ago. On the opening week we drew 500 new people (our average attendance is 2000). The congregation started inviting others. It turned into one of best equipping series I’ve done.
Mark: And you didn’t even use the post cards from Outreach. One of the things I like is youth listening with their parents.
Ken: We have an opportunity to teach multiple generations the essential truths of the Christian faith. It’s unprecedented. I can’t remember when I’ve had the chance to dust off my notes from Trinity. People are on the edge of their seats. Junior High students, High schoolers are taking notes. I was on the front row during worship time, and 3 Junior High students went by with notebooks to the front row.
Lee: I go to your church. Watching those young people so intent, taking notes. I was moved. Who says they aren’t interested? When you have a relevant hook like The Da Vinci Code, they connect with intensity.
Ken: I’ve run in postmodern circles. The assumption is that post moderns don’t have interest in evidence that demands a verdict. I have come to believe that is false. They want to know what the Bible says. This movie and book gives us an opportunity to teach the essential doctrines.
Mark: Dan Brown has made apologetics cool again.
Ken: If we miss this, it’s one of most strategic opportunities in years. I put over 300 hours into study of these 8 sermons. I’m sure everyone would love to spend that amount of time. But I was in a unique season of life that I could put that amount of time into it. I wanted to thoroughly equip myself, but I also believed that at some point, God would use it to equip leaders in the kingdom.
Mark: We tend to reinvent wheels we don’t need to. You’ve piloted this, done the research, and put it into a resource we can use.
Ken: I tested this on 15,000 people over the past 2 years, at Hume Lake, in Virginia, Washington, D.C., and now here on the West Coast. This stuff works well, specifically 8 weeks of materials. If you are looking at slides, there is a notebook with outlines, CD rom, 150 pages of manuscript, outlines with handouts, power point slides, (16 x 9 definition), all the MP3 files so you can listen to the sermons. We have provided all of that for $49.95. I need to tell you that we are running out. We had 50 orders after a conference this morning. We probably have 100 left, then will produce CDs. You wouldn’t get the notebook. The CDs are $39.
Mark: Just to qualify: You could pick 3 of the most important topics. You could do l message, pick and choose. Basically we answered 80 questions the book raises. they are dealt with in a systematic, biblical way. It can also work as small group curriculum. We did a whole campaign on Lee’s small group. You can order at www.coasthillschurch.org there is a link on the home page, or go through Outreach, Inc. at sermon central. the Mary Magdalene message is there, free. We are pod-casting messages free from the Coasthills website.
Mark: This is a proven, test-driven resource. Now I want to direct you to the next screen on the website. Way back in January, Outreach did a survey among churches asking if they would do anything about The Da Vinci Code. Only 5% said it was unlikely. 67% said likely or very likely. I’ve got to believe that 67% has moved into the 80s now. I was very encouraged to see that churches are going to preempt, respond, and make the most of the opportunity.
Next screen: What are churches planning? The top response: 75% a sermon series, along the lines of what Ken was talking about.
Next on the chart, 44% are planning a small group series. There was nothing available when that was said. Now there is this curriculum by Lee Strobel, Outreach campaigns, including satellite series with Irwin Lutzer.
Now let’s talk about what it would look like. What are the approaches? Tools? How do we communicate it? I want to introduce Scott Evans, Founding leader of Outreach, Inc. 10 years ago. Scott is a former pastor who was helping to lead outreach at his own church. He developed tools at his own church, which birthed this organization, with communication tools, ideas, Outreach Magazine. Outreach serves us so well. Thanks for being here.
Scott Evans: For the churches, I’m sure there are a lot of questions. We were shocked by survey results in January. We decided we’d better start listening to churches and see how we could help equip them. The big question is “When should I do a series?” Go to slide 10. If you are going to do 1 message, May 21 would be most strategic. May 19th is the worldwide opening of the movie. There will be 10 times the buzz that week. People will have questions. People will be asking your people questions. Even though that’s just 4 weeks out, there is plenty of time, with all resources available.
Mark: That night we are doing the CCM broadcast. You could do a 1-2 punch, first do the service, and that evening do the broadcast and answer questions in this outreach event.
Scott: Other churches are launching a message series that week, starting May 21. Another option is to back it up a week and on the weekend of May 14, do something for insiders, and equip your people to be prepared, like Ken did. Get them ready. Let them know you as a church will support them. Get the book available. Tell your church members about the small groups you are planning. The other option is to do a 4-8 week series any time, all the way into the fall. When the movie comes out is a strategic time, but this whole issue of “Can Christianity and faith be trusted?” will be out there.
Mark. There is an industry of books in secular bookstores, conspiratorial stories about Jesus, It’s open season on Jesus, and it gives us lots of things to talk about, like the “Gospel of Judas.”
Scott: The other question was small groups. This is a perfect topic for inviting new people into small groups. It’s so easy to invite neighbors and co-workers. With Lee’s and Gary’s small group DVD curriculum, it’s so easy, powerful and well done. One of the things we are doing at New Song is show clips of the DVD to get people ready, have a time after the service to see what the small group is like. We’re going to do the series twice, first for our people and secondly as an outreach. It answers the questions Christians have, gives a defense and answers the lies that are being told.
Slide 12 has info about it. Lee, you guys did a good job designing this, anything a small group leader needs, leader’s guide, participant guide, workbook, 1 Sunday sermon, power point slide, and l of the outreach books. There is a natural fear in starting a small group – I’m no expert in church history, I don’t have answers. You don’t need to be an expert. Anything you need is in this.
Slide 13 – If churches are doing A Quest for Answers, there is a 3 week downloadable small group guide.
Slide 14: Churches were asking how to get the word out for a message series, ideas. We put together what we call “design suites” including a direct mail postcard, banner, etc that can be used with any message series. Examples shown “Seek the real truth” … a “Quest for Answers.“
The movie trailer it ends with “seek the truth” implying that the truth (of a conspiracy) will be revealed.
Mark: Let me speak to pastors and teachers. I know what it’s like. Lee and I have been involved together. We would be immersed in preparing the lesson, like Ken spent all those hours. It’s hard to lift your head above those issues to how it will be promoted. About Thursday night it all comes together, you have a great talk, you know God will use it, but you wish you had taken steps to get the word out. Outreach has provided great tools, great looking stuff, so about the time you have the message figured out, it will make the most of the moment. Let’s do both – prepare great teaching but in faith that the teaching will be great, use tools like this. A lot of visitors will come if you use tools like this.
Scott: The church has an opportunity to communicate to people who will be receptive to this message, such as hearing about Ken’s church growing by 500 without any promotion.
Page 15-16 more examples
Slide 17 At www.Outreach.com there is a link for Da Vinci Code resources, a bunch of free stuff, and links to these books and DVDs which can be purchased. There is a sermon link – several manuscripts pastors can take a look at to see how others are dealing with this topic.
Lee: I have 2 messages available. One is seizing this opportunity, using this outreach – I’m almost done with that message. What can we really know from history? It is a seeker type message. You can Email@LeeStrobel.com
Scott: We’ll probably have it posted by Monday (at www.Outreach.com) SermonCentral is part of Outreach.com
Mark: “Who was Mary Magdalene?” was the hottest topic for you, Ken?
Ken: Yes. Were Jesus and Mary married? etc. People can get that free through outreach.com
Scott: Slide 18 - how to get the word out. I would encourage, whatever you are planning, to make gift books available that church members can buy for their friends. Begin talking about it now, getting people in your church ready. It emboldens them. If you get one of the small group DVDs, use the clips in a Sunday service. Response has been tremendous. People are asking what the DVDs will include. Send invitations a week before the series starts. You need lead time for a direct mail outreach, so now is the time to start on that.
Slide 20 – Send a press release to your local newspaper. Newspapers love to talk about topics like this. Type up a little about the topic, an outline; even include a copy of a postcard. They might print a full color picture of your outreach. That’s free advertising. The biggest thing is to equip your members to be inviters. Our greatest outreach tool is the transformed life of a believer. But we don’t often equip them to be effective, or give them tools. Just by doing a message series you are equipping your people. They will be grateful. That’s the first way – to address it. By addressing it, you build trust with your congregation. They will feel you are serving them. They have loved ones and family members who are walking away from the faith, confused, believing all this stuff is true. That little seed of doubt they had is sprouting because of this book and movie.
Slide 21 – make books available as free gift to visitors. We have 2 gift books, Josh McDowell’s and Lee Strobel’s, available at great discount. $1.50 each
Page 23 – Exploring the Da Vinci Code – books are available in a case lot price of $2.50 (half the regular price)
Lee: Discussing the Da Vinci Code is for small groups – Exploring is a different resource, a self-contained book, a 1-stop orientation. This is the one we gave to the waitress. Paul Cedar hosted me to teach a group in his home in Palm Desert 2 weeks ago. We had 100 people there – I brought 500 copies, and by lunch time they had sold out. 100 people got 500 books. It surprised me, but lifted my vision. When you give a tool people can trust… A church in Southern California ordered 6000. The third week of a series they are giving out these books, printing an invitation to the simulcast.
Scott: If churches want quantities, the sooner the better. I have a feeling we’ll be out of stock before long. Zondervan is printing more. Josh’s book has 2.5 million in print, but demand keeps growing.
Scott: Slide 24 – a 20 page movie companion guide that Josh helped write with Campus Crusade. We’re making that available as an easy outreach tool. Church can personalize it on the back.
Slide 25 – a couple of other ideas.
Mark: Slide 26 - This is an exciting opportunity – anywhere in North America you can tune in thru satellite; the equipment to do it is relatively easy. Whatever video capacity you have, this is a live broadcast. There is a training event April 28th – you would need to be in the loop already. The big night is May 21, a live outreach event on Sunday evening, with Strobel, Mittleberg and Lutzer. It is designed to reach seekers in your community. Plug in, promote it and play it – we’ll speak to the people in your church. You can forward questions from your church and we’ll respond. We expect 2000-3000 churches to participate. CCN – Church Communication Network http://www.ccn.tv Lee and I had lunch today planning other events this year. Barna, Blanchard, and Hybels are all doing these broadcasts.
Mark: One last slide – Outreach Magazine. You just did a feature on The Da Vinci Code.
Scott: The cover story is available for free download. If churches want the full Magazine, go to www.outreachmagazine.com. I think some publishers have given us some free books to give to churches who subscribe.
Mark: Scott, your team does a good job of taking the pulse around the country and doing articles on what’s happening around the country. I think the world of Scott and his team, there to serve the church, and the great resources they provide. Outreach.com is a place where you can get information, one-stop shop to leverage the opportunity. they have more ideas than you can use.
Now we want to turn the corner. We hope you won’t leave yet, because we want to answer your questions. We hope you feel better equipped to make the most of this opportunity.
At the very end, the web address: www.Outreach.com 800-991-6011
Questions:
1. Lee, would you guys lighten up? It’s fiction. It’s a movie – make believe.
Lee: The problem is people are believing it. Brown has concocted a brew so people don’t know where the truth begins. He points out some things that are true. It confuses people. We have an obligation to engage with it and reach out to our community with the truth. I am reminded of what Paul Myers said about a historical novel in WWII. In most novels, the author keeps background facts true and adds fictional characters that interact with it. Brown has made up the background too, as if Churchhill was on trial for war crimes and Hitler running the world.
2. Ken, should we really be seeing this movie? It’s blasphemous. Aren’t we encouraging Hollywood by buying tickets, encouraging this?
Ken: That is a legitimate question. I agree with Lee. Don’t see if for entertainment, but if you are going to engage people in conversation, it is an issue of credibility to have either read the book or seen the film. I was concerned about the film rating. Lee shot me an email –it’s been rated PG-13. That shows there are some crazy sexual pagan practices. The Director is pretty good, fairly discreet, so I’m glad he is making this film. I don’t think it will be too outlandish. We aren’t trying to promote the movie, but people are going to see it. Ken, you had someone (McLean) come up and say,”I’m not a believer. I’m interested in this series, but this is my question: ‘Have you actually read the book?’” He was surprised. Far too often, we are accused of having opinions without fully investigating. I was glad I could say I had read the book. Lee, you had a good idea for people in reading the book. You need a good summary. I suggest buying a used copy from Amazon.com because then Dan Brown won’t get any money.
Mark: The book didn’t just inform me, but helped me understand its appeal. I started being angry
with what the book said. But when the waitresses raved about the book, I could relate. Advice: as we teach or preach or talk about it, I think we should identify with it; admit there are parts you enjoyed, it was an adventure, but HOWEVER, you were taught some things about Jesus, the church and history that are untrue, really dangerous. I’m glad you enjoyed the book, but you need to be aware of the errors… Find common ground, but turn the corner and talk about the important issues it raised.
3. Lee, what about the lawsuits?
Lee: There is a lawsuit against Dan Brown by authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail. You can’t copyright an idea so they lost their lawsuit, and the movie will not be delayed. One of the authors has The Jesus Papers – a terrible book. I talk about that book on my newsletter.
Mark: Anyone who has heard the news recently has heard about The Gospel of Judas; it is about a conspiracy between Judas and Jesus.
Lee: It is a document written in late second century, but has no real credibility. It’s from a Gnostic group that likes to take the bad guys in the Bible and make them good guys. It’s an authentic document but not authoritative. Reliable Christian scholars have admitted it is an authentic document. It would be like me making up a story about Abraham Lincoln conspiring with his assassin to kill him so he would be noticed in history.
Mark: If you go to secular bookstores, you find Gnostic gospels. I read some of the quotes. People laugh when I use them in my sermons. They have so many holes in them –it takes more faith to believe this stuff than the gospels which have survived scrutiny. The Gospel of Judas could not stand up to the same kind of scrutiny. Bookstores should probably have a sign saying “the Gnostic section.”
4. Mark: We’ve had questions earlier – I see the importance of this, my church must do something, but our pastor doesn’t think it’s that important. How do I get this across to my pastor?
Most pastors don’t have a lot of time to read fiction. They need to see that this is an opportunity to teach basic doctrine to people who really want to know. I didn’t have church history resources at my finger tips. The issues are so deep and diverse; it’s hard to know where to start.
Paul Cedar: Do this with a lot of love and sensitivity. Everyone has an agenda for the pastor. The more resources you have that you can share in a non-threatening way. Show him what you ordered for yourself and offer to share them with him.
Mark: I’m willing to allow the pastor to do a free I-pod download. Lee was giving us truth in machine gun fashion. The statistics: 1/3 of Canadians surveyed believe Jesus has descendants walking around in France. Oh, that’s France? It’s worse in America! 53% of Americans who read the book said it had an impact on their spiritual growth and understanding. This is not just to protect our flocks. We must respond. I heard on a news broadcast about a Catholic monk who read the book, believed it and committed suicide. He believed his church had hidden this truth. If only he had heard the truth.
Jim Overholt: It is easy to do with so many materials already prepared. It’s key with many pastors – it’s not a distraction from core teaching. This is core teaching, the best opportunity in a long time to do it.
Mark: It’s more core teaching than a lot of the stuff we deal with all the time.
Lee: A lot of young people have not had opportunity to learn church history or apologetics.
Mark: They will never be more teachable than now when they are challenged by a current topic.
I want to thank everyone who has taken time out to listen to this. I trust you will prayerfully and courageously take this help to seize the day around this whole Da Vinci phenomenon.
Scott closed the call in prayer.
