The Importance of Reconciliation in Cityreaching
Guest: Michael Lienieu, President, Global Net Productions

Teleconference Transcript - 1/17/08

Glenn Barth welcomed early callers. Ralph Labbee, Salvation Army, Michigan was asked to open the call with prayer.

Announcements: Jarvis

- Next Third Thursday Cityreaching Call: February 21, 2008
- National City Impact Roundtable (CIR) April 14-16. 2008 in Braintree, MA (just south of Boston) Register online NOW. Dr. Ray Bakke will speak on how to exegete a city; we will hear the Boston story, visit some of the sights, partnership training.
- LC2C, Partnership Training Conf Call February 16 11am Central time. Email info@cityreaching.com if interested.
- Redesign of www.cityreaching.com coming in February 2008

Introduction of Michael Lienau: Michael is involved in some interesting things. They have 9 children, 5 adopted from different ethnic groups. He has worked on several films, several focusing on racial reconciliation. We try to plan our conference calls strategically, so with the Martin Luther King holiday coming up, recon and justice are key pieces, so we felt this the right time to have Michael on the call. The film Yokes and Chains, a powerful piece – have you seen a clip at the website? Michael, we welcome you as our guest.

Michael: Good morning, everyone. It’s great to be here.

Interview:

Michael, please share a brief testimony on how God got you involved in reconciliation work/ministry in general.

Michael: I grew up in southern Oregon, where there was a lot of racial tension between national people and the government decided to pay off the native people and abolish their lands. One of my first assignments, when I was 13, was to film what was happening on this reservation. One native person refused to sell his land, and stood up against the government. It inspired me to listen to his story around a campfire, hear about his people, their way of life, and why he couldn’t sell his land. He was a believer. For the next 5 years I documented his story. My first documentary at age of 18, Return of the Raven, was about his land. In 1977, Roots aired on TV. I was inspired by that series. I thought it would be fun to meet Alex Haley. I was able to do a documentary on his life. He said it was his dream to see healing and reconciliation. I had no idea what he was talking about. He wanted to see something deeper than the Roots story, see healing and reconciliation. When the L.A. riots broke out, we thought we had gotten over this, but it was like a volcano waiting to erupt. Then few years later, I came across John Dawson’s book, Healing America’s Wounds. That book put all the pieces together; identifying other’s pain, identifying with their story. What was God saying to me? What should I do about this? So for next several years, I traveled across America, listened to stories and produced the documentary, Healing Americas Wounds, with John Dawson. We went to slave ports on the east coast, to Wounded Knee in SD. We listened to God’s heart, prayed and cried with people about things that had been done, and coined term identificational repentance (Dawson’s words.) We finished this documentary, and by then the church was engaged with Promise Keepers and others who were doing apologies. We realized it was more than an event; it was a lifestyle. So we tried to get that video into churches, with a history and chronology of wounding and why it needs to be addressed.

Glenn: I watched Yokes and Chains, and at times found myself in tears. When I looked at this, you made a point of going to specific historical sites on three continents, England, Africa and the U.S. and a 4th area in Barbados. This seems like your journey was aimed at historical spots, also dealing with a dark, broken time in western civilization. Talk to me about how you see the importance of reconciliation and forgiveness affecting sustained city/community transformation efforts.
Michael: Up until 1999, we dealt with repentance within the church. We hadn’t seen much outside the church. In 2004, John Dawson put me in touch with a YWAM leader in England who had a vision of a snake on a pole that would bring healing. He started a journey in 2000, taking repentance to Africans in the Diaspora in a very unusual way. He wanted to see unity in this, so he developed relationships with African descendants of slaves from Africa. They played a part in the slave trade as well, and their apology was powerful.. “Will you forgive us for selling our brothers to be slaves?” White people took hated symbols of slavery and wore them. Africans of the Diaspora alongside white people were wearing yokes and chains. They took it out into the streets. When I’m telling stories, I’m talking about something that had happened, but here we took the camera out into the streets, documenting people’s reactions to this unusual apology. We set the camera in middle of the action to see what happened. This gripped us, to see the walls break down, people’s hearts transforming before the lens of the camera. Many Muslim people protested what we were doing, but after watching, we saw their hearts changed. As far as the cities, it’s showing unity, showing that someone cares about the pain others feel. This issue is still being addressed. What happened is still a barrier to the gospel. That’s why it’s important to take the ministry of reconciliation out into the streets. This is just one example, one way of doing this. Many joined in doing this. It did have an impact.

Jarvis: We are always encouraging the whole church to take the whole gospel to the whole city and on to the world. In the U.S. now, our cities are changing. The world has come to us. How can the message and methods represented in Yokes and Chains be helpful for those who felt it necessary to connect – the whole issue of reconciliation and healing and forgiveness. How does the film address those issues?
Michael: We deal with why history is so important. In our western mindset, we want to move forward. We found that Native American and African American’s connection to history is very important. It unlocks something in those people. We all have connectedness to history and to each other. We need to understand the past, the path others have been down, to find the unity God wants in his church to identify the pain of others, not just “get over it.” That happened in the past. A lot of wounds aren’t healed until they are addressed. Dawson’s book Healing America’s Wounds

Jarvis: Let’s get over it – we are seeing government groups apologize for slavery. Obviously there are many who have the opinion that we still need to address this. It happened in the past. How do you heal the hurts? Do you see the government apology as effective as what you are doing?
Michael: I think it starts in the church first. We have God’s heart. A lot of these sins were done in the Name of Christ. Many Christians said their families owned slaves, and we want to make this right. We met people who converted to Islam because of the reputation of Christianity for how it treated their ancestors. Once the church has addressed it, the government apology has huge weight. It addressees the injustice side. The Japanese who were interned during WWII were paid. It wasn’t until bill Clinton sent an apology that Japanese people felt they could move on. A government apology is a huge mechanism for that. The R word – reparation. Most people want to be healed in their heart. It’s all part of this. We’re excited when government gets involved, but I think the church needs to lead the way in bringing reconciliation and restitution.

Glenn: Blessings can carry on through generations like curses can carry on. We are sometimes too quick to discount things going on from generation to generation. While slavery may have formally ended at the end of the Civil War, we have carry-over that is generational, guilt for those who were slave owners felt by their descendents. For a while, I didn’t understand how that generational piece carried on. But it seems that is what you are dealing with. While the system ended long ago, there have been remnants even into the 21st century. We see ways in which racism continues to rear its ugly head. People are coming into our cities and communities in increasing numbers. We are seeing great concern over immigration in the presidential campaign. With increasing populations coming, how does the message of Yokes and Chains reach into our cities?
Michael: One of aspects of the story in Yokes and Chains is that slavery is much broader than what happened within our borders. Amazing Grace marked 200 years since the abolition of slave trade in England. It also drove a wedge in our country. This month marks the anniversary of abolition, but it didn’t go away right away. People hoped that by abolishing slave trade, it would abolish slavery, but it didn’t end – it led to the Civil War, and then losers were left with former slaves. It ultimately led into the Civil Rights era, issues that were never dealt with. The Yokes and Chains story – we tend to think of this as an American thing. But the British were ten times worse. We visited slave ports along the east coast, bringing an apology. The next year went to Caribbean and South America. Hundreds of slaves were brought to South America. It was not until 1996, in Columbia, that Africans of the Diaspora were given voting rights. In village after village of descendants of African slaves, people are still being treated as sub-humans. People need to see and know that the legacy of slavery is much deeper than just in our land. Only 4% of the of 12 million slaves who survived the passage came to the U.S. The rest of those millions sent to the Caribbean and South America. That’s a legacy that still needs to be dealt with – the homelessness and poverty still down there.

Questions and Answers:

Larue Goetz: What response did you get at Wounded Knee, S.D.?
Michael: The churches got together and decided they wanted to reach out. They brought blankets, money and apologies. The church had stood by, doing nothing. I talked to a tribal leader, the Vice President and asked, “What meaning did this have to you? Are these just white words?” He said, “This grass roots group that came today is the first hope. They brought money, food, but these words are first hope and healing.” That impacted me, the heartfelt response we got there.

Larue: We have lot of Native Americans here in North Dakota, and I’m just beginning to make some inroads in meeting with Native American pastors for prayer. That’s why I ask the question.
Michael: God is so creative. What we might do might work for that moment. We have to seek H.S. to lead us in creative acts of recon.

Sherry Lorentzen, Gig Harbor, WA: You are addressing the question I was going to ask. The importance of obeying God in reconciliation and when you do, this tangible effect you see in changes.
Michael: We started an expedition on the anniversary of the day an important slave was brought to America in chains. Word got out that this apology was going to be made. Neo-Nazi groups were strong in that area, and they brought a protest and death threats. This brought out the media, national TV and press. So our act of obedience was prayer. They have a memorial event at that site every year. We questioned whether we should even do it. But we recognized there would be risk. The big risk for me was when David Pott called and asked me to do this. As my wife and I prayed, we felt we should take our children. We had just adopted five children, and had four of our own. I put my family in the middle of this. We told them it was a home school assignment to about learn history. They learned that over half of the slaves brought to America were between five and fifteen years of age. They asked if they could apologize for what happened to children. Out of their own hearts, they brought an apology that brought tears. People were deeply touched. We had no idea what God wanted to do through our children when we brought them. It was the atmosphere created pf identification and repentance. In Annapolis, Maryland, people started reconciliation study circles that are going on in churches there now.

Sherry: Do you find significance in those connects?
Michael: The opposition we received everywhere we went, at times unbearable, draws you to your knees. The West Indies assignment was difficult. 98% of the entire population goes back to slavery. Some of those nations didn’t want to discuss this. Their museums don’t even deal with slavery. They want to forget about it. But the people there cry out about the issues they are dealing with. They thanked us for coming, to step into it and bring this message to their people.

Jarvis: By the way, the website is www.yokesandchains.com Michael, are there other websites with what you are doing?
Michael: Click on that one, and click on the tab: DVD. Tab order will take you to Healing America’s Wounds. A Native American Apology Resolution is being presented in the U.S. Senate McCain is one sponsor of this bill. We saw the importance of it with the Japanese. You can go to www.globalnetproductions.com - History of reconciliation section. You can preview videos.

Jan Kennedy, Norcross, GA: We have a huge number of immigrants in the Atlanta are. On a practical level, should we be aware of the background of slavery issues to reach them?
Michael: I think it’s the same principle. We don’t know their background. We need to build bridges to them. They may not share our convictions. We need to understand where they are coming from and build relationships with them. In order to see the unity Christ wants us to have, we need to understand each other, celebrate each other’s differences, learn to appreciate each other and have that unity. The issue of slavery is one issue that we have focused on, but these same biblical principles can be applied no matter what issue we address, ie.injustice in immigration or all the broken treaties the government needs to address. Those biblical principles of identification, walking in humility, seeking God’s heart, are what we need to do.

Carmen Falcione, Montgomery, AL: We’ve been involved in the African American community and reconciliation since the 1960s. The Lord spoke to my heart to also be involved, and I’ve known Nigel Bigpond. The Governor and the Mayor were involved in our National Native American Reconciliation Day here, gifts were exchanged, trail of tears. I think Nigel and Jay – there’s not been a state-wide annual reconciliation day. We did it one time, and much went on, but there was no follow up to that. I don’t know if there should have been. It’s a journey, we continue to work on it. Do you think we accomplished what we needed to?
Michael: I know Nigel and Jay very well. I think it’s the same thing – it’s not an event, it’s a lifestyle, relationship building, walking alongside Native American pastors and serving them. They have a heart for their people. The best, the only way to reach their people is through the Native pastors God is bringing up. There are Native pastors here in the Seattle area that we want to serve, to help them reach the people on their reservations. Those relationships are important to nurture. That event did a significant thing. You earned a friend there. How you deal with that friend in relationship is important. Continue to ask, “How are you doing? How can I serve you?” It’s fun to do.

Carmen: God opened that up, and we went on to Oklahoma and Jacksonville, where we found an incredible amount of atrocities on the Florida beach.. The door was opened in that year.
Michael: Our job is obedience to what God tells us to do and then we leave the results up to Him. I was able to help in the first Transformations Video. Occasionally the world catches on and says “Things have changed in our world because of what Christians did.” What the world recognizes as what the church has done – definition.

Carmen: In the Capetown Transformations Video, George asked, “How would you like to discern 1000 hours of video and select one hour that is on front burner?”
Michael: We have over 600 hours of footage for Yokes and Chains. Tomorrow night it will be telecast on Angel Two, air again on MLT at 8 pm Eastern time. They have asked if we could do a series. We are seeking funding to do a series on the 600 hours we have.

Tony Danhelka, Chicago area: I have friends in Big Sandy, Montana, an area near an Indian reservation. What would you recommend? I do work on reconciliation with the African American and Latino communities. They have asked me how they could apply the principles. What would you recommend as initial steps in working with people on reservation?
Michael: You are working with churches there?

Tony: No, they are in very small town.
Michael: Find the Native American Christians in the area. Are churches in the area working with them? Dawson’s booklet, What Christians Should Know about Reconciliation is very good, a quick, biblical study on identificational repentance. It outlines 4 healing steps.: repentance, reconciliation, restitution, restoration. Look on the website: There are videos, Healing America’s Wounds, a complete history, what Christians can do about it, a training session for believers.

Sherry Lorentzen, Gig Harbor, WA: I was there with John Dawson the day you and Sherry drove up with your new family. One of things that has amazed me about you and Sherry is that you live reconciliation every day in your blended family. Can you speak to that? I think that has extreme significance.
Michael: When God presented this idea to us, my wife was excited to have nine little blessings living in our house. That was a big jump for me. I love doing things, but the logistics of things – we had a 7-passenger van. So it wasn’t until the children came and lived here that I saw what a blessing it was that God had prepared for us. They had lived in a Christian orphanage for two years. We see opportunities for reconciliation on a daily basis in our family, and we see it in the family of nations. When we brought the children home, we had friends in the community who weren’t believers, but they said, “You are walking the talk.” It has been a witness to the community.. My wife is so blessed because of this. I was scared, but now I can’t imagine it being any different. We’ve had them for five years now. It’s given a platform to share about God’s heart for adoption. There are severe issues, the legacies, issues of the past. We understand why these children are fatherless, and how God places the fatherless in families. We have other friends who have adopted as result of what we have done. It’s a passion for us.

Jarvis: Thanks to all of you for being on the call. Glenn is Convener for the National CIR.

Glenn: It’s going to be an exciting year. The CIR is a time to connect. We promise that this year, we will provide a lot of time for you to connect with others. We will offer a bus tour; leaders from Emmanuel Gospel Center and other New England leaders will lead ministry tours for 80 of our participants this year if you would like to see what is going on in Boston. For those who stay behind, there will be workshops and seminars. Other national ministry networks will be coming to talk about how they are working with cityreaching leaders to see specific transformation within their cities.

This has been an exciting topic today. We thank you, Michael, for sharing these insights about the journey that is recorded in Yokes and Chains.

Michael: Thank you so much. It’s been such a privilege to be with you today. I hope you can see Yokes and Chains and the other video Healing America’s Wounds. Go to www.GlobalNetProductions.com click on history You can get all three videos for a special price.

Glenn: Remember April 14-1. CIR early bird registration is $150. If you bring a group of 10 – it’s even less. We encourage a team from your city with different races and generations. Boston is a place where ethnic diversity is valued. They have worked hard to understand what God is doing in planting ethnic churches in “the quiet revival.” We encourage a diverse team, men and women, young and old, different ethnic backgrounds. Register at www.cityreaching.com

Jarvis: Lord willing, we will gather again February 21 for the next call. If you aren’t getting email invitations to these calls, email info@cityreaching.com and ask to be on the list.

Sherry Lorentzen was asked to close the call in prayer.


is so helpful, –Where we are at in the church today, we tend to think these things are events and then we move on. But in this we see the importance of developing relationships in an ongoing ministry of reconciliation. I would like to have been done with this long ago. It’s been difficult – the misunderstandings, some death threats brought against us. There are people who don’t want America changed. They like things the way they are. The U.S. Justice Department got involved, brought protection for us where threat was high.